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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;But Whatever You Do, Don&#8217;t Sing About God.&#8221; A Look At The Swinging Pendulum Of Christian Involvement In Music</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.sojournmusic.com/2008/07/17/but-whatever-you-do-dont-sing-about-god-a-look-at-the-swinging-pendulum-of-christian-involvement-in-music/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.sojournmusic.com/2008/07/17/but-whatever-you-do-dont-sing-about-god-a-look-at-the-swinging-pendulum-of-christian-involvement-in-music/</link>
	<description>Original worship music, hymns, and teaching on worship theology from Sojourn Community Church</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bobby Gilles</title>
		<link>http://www.sojournmusic.com/2008/07/17/but-whatever-you-do-dont-sing-about-god-a-look-at-the-swinging-pendulum-of-christian-involvement-in-music/#comment-1732</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobby Gilles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sojournmusic.com/2008/07/17/but-whatever-you-do-dont-sing-about-god-a-look-at-the-swinging-pendulum-of-christian-involvement-in-music/#comment-1732</guid>
		<description>I agree with the thrust of your argument -- in fact, I have said and will say these same things to many people.  I affirm the skill of the artists you mention as well, from Doyle Lawson and Quicksilver to Dylan.  

When I say "the issue is not ___" what I mean is that I agree that each of those things are problems, but despite that, we (at the very least, I)need to check our hearts and make sure that we simply don't want to listen to gospel truth in song. No doubt many Christians don't wrestle with this, and so the warning is irrelevant.

As far as the issue of whether some Christians have illegitimate reasons for disliking CCM, I could bring up many examples but here is one: a few months ago I had a conversation with a young Christian who made a sarcastic remark about the music of Michael W. Smith but could not honestly say that she'd ever heard a MWS song or even knew anything about him except she'd heard he was "corny," and she could not say what makes a song "corny" or artistic.  She just knows that in her culture of Christian friends, you're not supposed to like MWS, you're supposed to like Arcade Fire.  You're just supposed to.  
 
Whether MWS is or isn't corny fails to address the point -- we should critically appraise all forms of art rather than engage in sound-bites to appear cool, whether we're hoping to appear cool to friends in some kind of Christian sub-culture or in any other culture or setting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the thrust of your argument &#8212; in fact, I have said and will say these same things to many people.  I affirm the skill of the artists you mention as well, from Doyle Lawson and Quicksilver to Dylan.  </p>
<p>When I say &#8220;the issue is not ___&#8221; what I mean is that I agree that each of those things are problems, but despite that, we (at the very least, I)need to check our hearts and make sure that we simply don&#8217;t want to listen to gospel truth in song. No doubt many Christians don&#8217;t wrestle with this, and so the warning is irrelevant.</p>
<p>As far as the issue of whether some Christians have illegitimate reasons for disliking CCM, I could bring up many examples but here is one: a few months ago I had a conversation with a young Christian who made a sarcastic remark about the music of Michael W. Smith but could not honestly say that she&#8217;d ever heard a MWS song or even knew anything about him except she&#8217;d heard he was &#8220;corny,&#8221; and she could not say what makes a song &#8220;corny&#8221; or artistic.  She just knows that in her culture of Christian friends, you&#8217;re not supposed to like MWS, you&#8217;re supposed to like Arcade Fire.  You&#8217;re just supposed to.  </p>
<p>Whether MWS is or isn&#8217;t corny fails to address the point &#8212; we should critically appraise all forms of art rather than engage in sound-bites to appear cool, whether we&#8217;re hoping to appear cool to friends in some kind of Christian sub-culture or in any other culture or&nbsp;setting.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.sojournmusic.com/2008/07/17/but-whatever-you-do-dont-sing-about-god-a-look-at-the-swinging-pendulum-of-christian-involvement-in-music/#comment-1730</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sojournmusic.com/2008/07/17/but-whatever-you-do-dont-sing-about-god-a-look-at-the-swinging-pendulum-of-christian-involvement-in-music/#comment-1730</guid>
		<description>I think that you gloss over the very problems with CCM that make it unappealing to many listeners. In your own words:
1."Is it only because it is not as skillfully made?  Of course it often is."
2."the CCM industry is often a cheap copycat of the “secular” music industry.  Of course it often is"
3."those who write and sing about God often resort to “Christian cliches,” emotionalism, trendy (and sometimes inaccurate) theology, or “light” theology.  Of course they do.

In the world of music, as in any of the arts, these are not insignificant issues. There have been piles of what writer Flannery O'Connor termed "pious trash" executed under the guise of "Christian art". This crosses over into any of the art disciplines - writing, music, visual arts, etc. The Western church over time has regrettably separated the concept of the soul from the body in a sort of neo-platonist or gnostic way. The result is a skepticism of the arts by most main line denominations. They have thus left the arts in the hands of the secular world, contenting itself, in the worst cases, with 'precious moments' illustrations, unimaginative musical styles and lyrics with little probing depth. Or in your own words we are left with: "Christian cliches, emotionalism, trendy (and sometimes inaccurate) theology, or “light” theology." 
To assume that the disciplines like skill, originality or innovation – issues which lie at the core of the practices of music, painting and poetry, should not dictate whether discerning minds should give them their attention is quite a leap.
 The issue is not as simple as asking "Is it only because it is not as skillfully made?  Can we honestly say that we can find no examples in the gospel music and CCM worlds where the music is skillfully made?" 
 I would posit that over time there HAS been music made both inside and outside of the confines of the Christian label that was skillfully made, creative AND dealt with uniquely Christian concepts. Doc Watson, Doyle Lawson and Quicksilver, Bob Dylan, M. Ward, 16 Horsepower, Sufjan Stevens are just a few. 
 I don't agree with the statement that CCM isn't good enough for many Christians to engage with simply because it contains Christian content. When the above musicians sing a song about prayer or the transfiguration I rejoice to hear biblical concepts expressed in a thoughtful and beautiful composition.
 A further question for discussion might be: "Why must Christians cordon themselves off in a sort of musical minor league by creating a label like CCM?" Or even: "Is a musician less Christian because he or she doesn't routinely present the complexity of creation in "“Christian cliches,” emotionalism, trendy (and sometimes inaccurate) theology, or “light” theology", but rather plumbs the depths of Gods wondrous creation in a way that challenges the listener/viewer to think about God's gifts in a new light (this might, for example, include writing a song about an issue as sensitive as suicide that doesn't explicitly mention God)?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that you gloss over the very problems with CCM that make it unappealing to many listeners. In your own words:<br />
1.&#8221;Is it only because it is not as skillfully made?  Of course it often is.&#8221;<br />
2.&#8221;the CCM industry is often a cheap copycat of the “secular” music industry.  Of course it often is&#8221;<br />
3.&#8221;those who write and sing about God often resort to “Christian cliches,” emotionalism, trendy (and sometimes inaccurate) theology, or “light” theology.  Of course they do.</p>
<p>In the world of music, as in any of the arts, these are not insignificant issues. There have been piles of what writer Flannery O&#8217;Connor termed &#8220;pious trash&#8221; executed under the guise of &#8220;Christian art&#8221;. This crosses over into any of the art disciplines - writing, music, visual arts, etc. The Western church over time has regrettably separated the concept of the soul from the body in a sort of neo-platonist or gnostic way. The result is a skepticism of the arts by most main line denominations. They have thus left the arts in the hands of the secular world, contenting itself, in the worst cases, with &#8216;precious moments&#8217; illustrations, unimaginative musical styles and lyrics with little probing depth. Or in your own words we are left with: &#8220;Christian cliches, emotionalism, trendy (and sometimes inaccurate) theology, or “light” theology.&#8221;<br />
To assume that the disciplines like skill, originality or innovation – issues which lie at the core of the practices of music, painting and poetry, should not dictate whether discerning minds should give them their attention is quite a leap.<br />
 The issue is not as simple as asking &#8220;Is it only because it is not as skillfully made?  Can we honestly say that we can find no examples in the gospel music and CCM worlds where the music is skillfully made?&#8221;<br />
 I would posit that over time there HAS been music made both inside and outside of the confines of the Christian label that was skillfully made, creative AND dealt with uniquely Christian concepts. Doc Watson, Doyle Lawson and Quicksilver, Bob Dylan, M. Ward, 16 Horsepower, Sufjan Stevens are just a few.<br />
 I don&#8217;t agree with the statement that CCM isn&#8217;t good enough for many Christians to engage with simply because it contains Christian content. When the above musicians sing a song about prayer or the transfiguration I rejoice to hear biblical concepts expressed in a thoughtful and beautiful composition.<br />
 A further question for discussion might be: &#8220;Why must Christians cordon themselves off in a sort of musical minor league by creating a label like CCM?&#8221; Or even: &#8220;Is a musician less Christian because he or she doesn&#8217;t routinely present the complexity of creation in &#8220;“Christian cliches,” emotionalism, trendy (and sometimes inaccurate) theology, or “light” theology&#8221;, but rather plumbs the depths of Gods wondrous creation in a way that challenges the listener/viewer to think about God&#8217;s gifts in a new light (this might, for example, include writing a song about an issue as sensitive as suicide that doesn&#8217;t explicitly mention&nbsp;God)?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: limpdance</title>
		<link>http://www.sojournmusic.com/2008/07/17/but-whatever-you-do-dont-sing-about-god-a-look-at-the-swinging-pendulum-of-christian-involvement-in-music/#comment-1727</link>
		<dc:creator>limpdance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sojournmusic.com/2008/07/17/but-whatever-you-do-dont-sing-about-god-a-look-at-the-swinging-pendulum-of-christian-involvement-in-music/#comment-1727</guid>
		<description>This is a really helpful post.

When I read George Herbert's poetry, which was wholly on christian themes, it feels like great poetry and extra because of the weight of the things he talks about - things unseen.

In the same way I listen to people like Sara Groves, Steven Curtis Chapman, Nicole Nordeman, the Cross Movement, Kirk Franklin, Bethany Dillon and feel that they are people who wrestle with the quality of their art.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a really helpful post.</p>
<p>When I read George Herbert&#8217;s poetry, which was wholly on christian themes, it feels like great poetry and extra because of the weight of the things he talks about - things unseen.</p>
<p>In the same way I listen to people like Sara Groves, Steven Curtis Chapman, Nicole Nordeman, the Cross Movement, Kirk Franklin, Bethany Dillon and feel that they are people who wrestle with the quality of their&nbsp;art.</p>
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